Mongolian blue spot
posted February 27, 2003
I have a purple map of Australia on my butt, after falling and “surfing” downstairs in my house the other morning, the first time I’d done so since just after we moved in 3 years ago. It has to do with foot size and Japanese stairs. But the location of the bruise made me wonder: If we (American guy of Danish/Irish descent and pure Japanese wife) had a baby, what are the chances it would have the so-called “Mongolian blue spot” that many Asian babies (I don’t know the distribution of this phenomenon) are born with? Anyone know?
Google it if this is the first you’ve heard if “Mongolian blue spot.”
ah, the blue spot. Both of my kids have them. me: american of italian descent. my wife: korean.
i think the probability of being branded with “the spot” is something like 80% if you have any kind of asain DNA floating around in you. the spot goes away after about 4-6 years according to my doc. my daughter’s spot is starting to fade a bit ( hers looked like a turnip) , but my son’s is still blazing in all its pruple glory ( his looks like a pear wearing a hat)
watch your step.
oh, btw…i just read that you are from Tustin. I hail from laguna niguel. went to Dana Hills HS class of ’88. used to do the Como street training rides back in the day. up sand canyon, around the base, el toro road, through santiago canyon and back through tustin. sort of where the Spectrum is now.
blog on.
I’m American of Russian Jewish descent and my husband is Japanese and our daughter didn’t have the blue spot. But some of our other “mixed couple” friends’ kids have them.
Genetics can be amazing. We have friends who are a blond blue eyed Canadian/Japanese couple and both their girls are blonds with blue eyes! (the dad’s the blond so it’s not like Mom was making up stories!)
only Korean and Mongolian babies have the blue spot on thier butt, which goes away anyway.
Ok, I am getting quite confused here….Everywhere I search the mongolian blue spot is associated to asian decent children. My husband is 100% pure french canadian and I am a mix of american indian, italian and french canadian. My daughter has the mongolian blue spot. Can children sus=ch as my daughter (with her french, italian indian heritage) have the spot? What exactly does the spot mean? Is it a special sign of something I should know about?
Any input would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Don’t worry, that last comment about only Korean and Mongolian babies having it is just plain wrong. Almost any baby with at least some Asian heritage can have the blue spot.
As part Native American, you would certainly qualify. It is almost certain that Native Americans are directly Asian in heritage. Most anthropologists consider that the N.A.’s migrated betweeen 40,000 and 15,000 years ago via the Bering Sea land bridge between Siberia and Alaska, while others suggest a sea route. If you know any Native Americans or Mexicans who don’t have mixed European blood, The resemblance to Asians is unmistakeable. I know a Mexican-American who was constantly mistaken for a Japanese when he was here in Japan.
Rest asured, you are “of the blood.”
Hiya
Very interested to hear that lots of Asian descent people have the Mongolian Blue Spot. I and my husband are British Jewish, and all our grandparents were Jewish and came to Britain from Russia & Poland. Both our children were born with the Mongolian Blue Spot – our 4-year-old’s one faded completely by her first birthday; the 6-year-old still has hers but very faint now. As far as we know we have no Asian blood, so wonder where the Blue Spot has come from, in our case. Any thoughts?
I am from Puno (Peru),and in my city everybody, me too, was born with the blue spot (it’s a normal thing). We live in Los Andes where there are many native communities: quechuas and aymaras. (Quechuas are descendants of the Incas)
I have just had a baby daughter who has a large mongolian blue spot on the top of her right thigh. My husband and I are white /English and have no known asian heritage. I have Irish on myside but thats it. Im very confused about how shes got one no one else in the family has!
Jessica, it may not be a Mongolian blue spot, just a birthmark. If you mean the front of the thigh, that’s not where it’s found, but rather on the lower back or buttocks, typically.
Gregory doesn’t have one.
my husband and i are both 100% filipino and our son has them everywhere! on his lower back, butt and thighs. he’s 13 months now and they’ve only slightly faded. i’ve always known about them and have seen them on babies in the family, but i never thought i would be so concious of them until our son was born. whenever i change his diaper around friends who’ve never heard of the spots, they look at me like i’ve been hitting him a bit too hard…
iv always known it to be mongolian in korean, i had and still have no idea wahts going on
My husband is 100% German, and I am English/German/Danish with one great-great aunt who was Iroquois. Our youngest son has a patch of Mongolian blue spot above his buttocks that puzzled us greatly until his pediatrician explained the Native American/Asian connection to us.
It is not just a Korean and Mongolian thing although Koreans like to think that. For some strange reason, they like to link themselves to the past militaristic glory of the mongols and they use this mongolian spot as proof. I am 100% chinese and both my sister and I had the mongolian spot as do about 95% of chinese people.
im from the uk, my mother is irish and so is her family as far as ive looked. My dad is English and so is his family. I asked around and i dont have any asian blood but i was born with a mongolian blue spot, which is a bit weird. I heard about a small area in France where nearly all the kids are born with them. I guess the genes must reach across a lot of generations, but who knows?? Anyway mine disapeared after a few years.
Check European history — the Mongols were defeated decisively at Chalon France….and left behind a good bit of DNA during their stay, I’m sure….all the way back and forth across Eurasia. Sort of turns that ‘racial purity’ thing on its head :)
I’m looking for information on the religious side of this mongolian spot. I’v seen something about a soul being “slapped” into a baby. If any one has input or know where to get further info let me know
Does anyone know if there is biblical side to the mongolian spot? I have read it has something to do with the a soul being “slapped” into a baby while it is being born. I’ve taken pictures and added it to the baby book along with any info I can find, as no one in my family or my husbands has had it before. Ukrainian and Checz
Not all Asians have them. The blue spot is unique to the Mongoloids – that’s why many (not all) Koreans, Japanese and Chinese have them but, all those places invaded by the Huns throughout history have a lot to show as well. The biggest irony being that many Aryan German babies have the blue spots as well – so much for racial purity indeed.
This is for all the people that believe that they are 100% white,irish or whatever. I dont want to be rude but you are all very funny people.In this day in age how can anyone say that they are pure anything. Mongolian blue spots are about genes. Whether you got blong hair and blue eyes its nearly impossible to be 100% white,black or native Amercian. No matter what colour your skin is your genes hold all sorts of genetic information. ALLIE- would have think that the germans, danish and english have never left there country or had children with any other races apart from in the last hundred years? Im so called black British from my neck to my butt I was covered in blue spots when i was born. Ive had genetic testing done to comfirm my ancestry. I was told that my great grand father was black spanish.In the begining I would been from africa which isnt surprising, through slavary moved to the carribean which before the Africans where brought there was occupied by the Native Amercians that move down to the then deserted islands from the Americas. So we are in the Caribbean with Africans and Native Americans e.g Inca’s. Spanish and the French colonized the two caribbean islands that my parents are from. So thats Africans, Natives A’s, Spanish and French. I speak both Sapnish and French for those that think this is bullshit. All these gene types that are pasific to each race are in my DNA. Then there was the issue of the surnames of my parents which are Scottish and Irish(this is nothing to do with DNA). Looked through the history name records of Britain linked with the Caribbean, to find out that my family where inslaved by Scottish and Irish Slave Masters. The children of some slave owners where documented in writing through inheritant that was left, the children mothers where owned by these families there jobs where as slave but also mistresses. Those who where not raped by there owners would sometimes be left an inheritance. My DNA showed gene types of certain European groups and that of Native Americans as well of Africans. This is why black, people of Native Amercian ancestry and Asians and some white people carry the blue spot gene. Look I forgot the Indian link in 1400 India sent thousands of ecomonic migrants to the Caribbean. So that explains me. Now for the Europeans. A lot of slave owners has children with black women whether it was through rape or as a mistress.In some cases the child or children would be eduacated, left inheritances and go on to live good lives in the White society(there weren’t many black people on that level . They would most certainly marry and white lady whether it was spanish irish whatever. So there children would be only quarter black and quite pale. Three generations down the line of only white marriages you get children that look white and are white; but there genes and DNA would show differently and you would never know. Well, apart from the occactional Mongolian blue that appears on very few white children toady. Its is said that it is similar to a genetic throw back. Why some really hard black people have blue or green eyes. Or some children of black parents have afro but blond hair and freckals. So lets have a should out to JEN and JACK its good to be eduacated and know your stuff. OWEN no Asian blood maybe black we could be related!. Hope that helped you ALLIE. MINNETTE 100% your having a laugh! where did the spot come from the moon? Come on what did the doctor say, how can you put 2 and 2 together and get 100% think about it.JESSICA as I said before if you can go back and tell me who all your ancestors sex with with, where there children are and where they travelled to and that there all pure white, thats all good forget doctors and science. Maybe you should go back to the hospital where you had your baby maybe it could have been switched at birth. And its not just Asian ancestry. Big up to NIL knowlegde is a wonderful gift. RACHAEL you really need to eduacate yourself on all of your history. The spot is a direct result of wars, invasions, disrespectfulness to other races,ignorance etc but to forget all that stuff also Tolerance of people and intergration its all about makes an indiviual. It makes who you are now and what others will be in the futuer. MIRA your a funny lady ‘only’ is a strong word if you cant use it dont. TIM its not just Asian decent check the stats again. Thats me done. Jasmine. Oh yeah my kids are half North African and black(or my detailed description above) they have lots and lots of them.
Um, i disagree. I am an enrolled member of a native american tribe. There is a thing called blood quatum, (it tells you how much native american blood you have). I don’t know where you got your info, but there are “FULLBLOODED NATIVE AMERICANS”………..sorry jas
as for the blue spot……….my whole family has had it, and i think someone of snook in ther jas…………maybe along time ago………
Hello Ernest,
Maybe you could read my post again.I didn,t say there werent full blooded Native Amercians or anybody of other races I suggested that if someone did have the spots that they are more likely to be mixed somewhere along the line. We know that Native Americans,Asians and blacks are the majority of the people that get the spots. I was purely giving the reasons for the spots appearing on white children. And more to the point unless you have had DNA testing done please tell me how you are possibly going to know for sure what informaton your genes hold about your genetic ancestry. What I was trying to put across was, you could think you were 100% of any race, but if these spots appeared on you that your ancestry could be different that what you thought is was. Wouldn’t it make more sense than saying I’m 100% Filipino or Irish how could I have possibly got these spots.
Hello Ernest,
Maybe you could read my post again.I didn,t say there werent full blooded Native Amercians or anybody of other races I suggested that if someone did have the spots that they are more likely to be mixed somewhere along the line. We know that Native Americans,Asians and blacks are the majority of the people that get the spots. I was purely giving the reasons for the spots appearing on white children. And more to the point unless you have had DNA testing done please tell me how you are possibly going to know for sure what informaton your genes hold about your genetic ancestry. What I was trying to put across was, you could think you were 100% of any race, but if these spots appeared on you that your ancestry could be different that what you thought is was. Wouldn’t it make more sense than saying I’m 100% Filipino or Irish how could I have possibly got these spots.
cheers jas, but whats the deal with this dna testing? i wouldnt mind finding out a bit more about it, find out what my ancestors have been up to!
hi i wonder if anyone can help me,
im full italian, my mums from north of italy and my dads from Naples the south of italy, my sons father is from portugal and my son has mongolian blue spots at the bottom of his spine. is this possible with italian and portuguese parents?
I dont get you adriana. Of course its possible you have just said it so it is. Its not only about the parents of the child. People have genetic throw backs from way way back like two,three even more generations back. Im not saying that your not full Italian, but just because your parents are Italian doesnt mean there genetic make up is full Italian. Can you expalin to me what It is with Italians that they all think that they are pure white people. Anyway its possible that its from your husband or childs father as Portugese people genetic make up is very diverse from the invasion of the Moors this also goes for Italy as you would be not be the first Italian to have a child with another person in the medertarian.This goes on a so genes mix.
jas
Just want to mention: everywhere I’ve seen on the Internet seems to say the spots are irregularly shaped. My siblings and I are half-Chinese, half-mixed northern European blood (mostly English, then Swedish, French, Irish, no German). Three of us were born with one perfectly circular blue spot about a 1/2 cm in diameter, near the center of one butt cheek. These are now completely gone. My sister, however, got a large blotchy patch covering her upper left forehead. She was told it would disappear, but unfortunately she is one of the few for whom it didn’t. In fact it has gotten darker, even seems larger, and she has worn bangs almost all her life to hide it. It used to look like someone had smacked her good, but now it is no longer blue and is simply dark. She’s in her late twenties and is starting to consider laser surgery or something. Poor girl to have it in such a conspicuous place. Anyway, any ideas on why hers was so different? And what causes the blueness in the spot that later fades? Any hope surgery would work? Anyone else with circular spots?
hi jasmine yes i know that italians aint pure white and i do see myself as full italian but i was just wondering if we could have a child that had mongolian blue spots.
so u say its possible than?
I believe the Mongolian Blue Spot is a genetic trait for those that have Mongolian ancestry. Me and my family all had the spot since we are Indian, but the Mongols conquered a lot more of the globe than Asia and mixed with many populations. There are entire regions of formerly Mongol controlled France that produce a majority of babies with the spots and I’m sure this happens in other places in the world as well.
I have never seen the Mongolian spot, and maybe I missed the answer on this. I have a distant cousin on my French Canadian side (7th cousin) telling that all of their babies born in their family have the Mongolian spot. None of our babies have this spot, and it has never been mentioned in past generations. Just out of curiousity why does it exist have any scientific studies been done about this.
well damn, im 20 and i have a baby blue circular birthmark on ma ass right in the centre, u kno i never knew there was actually a meaning to this mongolian spot, but im half singaporian , quater russian and quater persian and ive had this blue birthmark since i was a little, the colour hasnt faded and it hasnt dissapered, so ummmmm ???? well anyway i love my birthmark still, its a blessing to me, its different and original, but i jus really wanted to know the story behind this mongolian spot, peac out.
I heard that Mongolian blue spot is usually found on Mongolian (of course), Korean and Japanese babies, not on every asian. On a side note, Mongolian, Korean, Japanese and Turkish languages are in the same language group, “Altai”. I don’t know if Turkish babies have this Mongolian blue spot.
I recently found out that I was born with a Mongolian Blue spot. I had suspected, due to my coloring, hair, and features that I had possibly had ancestors of Mongolian extraction. All of my family is Russian Jews, mostly from Ukraine. I felt that the Mongols had invaded the Steppes of Ukraine centuries before my family settled there, passing their genes to the inhabitants of that land, the Cossacks, who in turn passed it to my Jewish ancestors during the pogroms. When I found out that I had been born with the spot, my theories were validated.
it is wrong to call it a mongolian trait, i think it is more of a trait if the ancient vedic aryans who conquered most of the earth until around 1500BC. they then spread out all over the world and that is why east asian indians and north/south american indians, japamese,chinese, mongol and some europeans get the spot.
genghis was descended from one of the ancient aryan clans who disperesed themselves to the most eastern extremes of the world and they stayed there for quite a few thousand years before extending westwards towards asia and europe spreading there ancient genes every step of the way.
Are there any theories regarding the cause of the Mongolian Blue Spot as pertains to evolution? My grandson(half Japanese & half Caucasian) was born with one in the lumbar sacral area. Also, it’s impossible to trace one’s family tree back thousands & thousands & thousands of years ago,& the Mongols were in Europe,etc.,so how can one say they’re 100% anything?
ok guys from the information I have seen on the net the mongolian blues spot is now also called the SEMITIC SPOT. Becuase its very common with jewish ppi, and also portugese ppl. The portugese aparently have strong DNA links with jews. So…, apart from the mongolian races the spot is seen in jewish communities, also everywhere the portugese have been ! For example brazil and parts of india.
i’m korean..was born with a big deep blue mark on my lower back…with a diameter 2/3s of the width of my waist…
I teach English as a second language in New Zealand. Most of my students are Korean with a few Japanese and Chinese. Today they told me about the “blue spot” but didn’t have an English word for it. They said, ALL Korean babies have them and most Japanese and Chinese babies. I am absolutely fascinated by this. Very interesting.
well i’m in a bit of trouble then. i’ve just had a baby and i was of the impression that she belonged to my boyfriend who is of french canadian & jewish decent (fair hair, fair skin). i had a fling with a fijian just before i got together with my boyfriend but the doctors dismissed that the fijian could be the father due to the timing etc. the baby came out with black hair, dark brown eyes and a huge blue spot on her tailbone. so here i am assuming that she now belongs to the fijian. but could it be possible that she was actually fathered by the frenchman?? HELP.
I’m not a doctor, but we had a baby this year as well, and timing can be wrong by as much as 3 weeks. You don’t mention your ethnic background, but as many as 46% of Hispanics show some coloration, and Mongolian spots are observed in more than 90% of infants of Mongoloid race (ie, East Asians, Indonesians, Polynesians, Micronesians, Amerindians, Eskimos), which includes Fiji. Of course genetic testing can confirm the actual situation, but whether you want to take that step depends on your personal situation.
The blue spot has to do with genetics and not nationality as most of you people seem to think. Ethnicity is not a two dimensional spectrum. It’s piles and piles of genes interacting with each other. There might be some Mauri child in New Zealand that has the blue spot with no connection in ancestry to Mongolians for that past 50 thousand years. He just happens to have the recessive genetics for the blue spot.
Now, it’s fairly accepted that Koreans are a mix of Chinese and Mongolian blood. It’s also known that the frequency of the blue spot in Koreans is fairly high. It happens in Chinese, Japanese, and other Asians fairly often as well. Well, a lot of Chinese immigrated to Korean and a lot of Koreans immigrated to Japan in the ancient past. I’m sure there are genetically Korean people living as Chinese as well and vice versa as Chinese are Chinese and Koreans are Koreans regardless of genetics… Nationality is a human convention and doesn’t count for jack in the eyes of science.
This spot might be more common in Mongolians than any other people… there was a very big physical wall separating the Northern Tribes from China, thus preventing Mongolians and Chinese from mixing for some time. Perhaps in time with a lot of promiscuity every baby on the planet will have the blue spot.
I recall something in history about a guy named Ghengis Khan conquering most of Eurasia. I can only assume that some of that romp involved “dating” and pilaging. There’s your introduction of the blue spot into Europe.
I mean the Ainu people of Northern Japan are suspected of having Nordic ancestry, and some Japanese trace their blood lines to the Ainu, which means some Japanese would be part European.
So, really, it might reason that all babies with the blue spot are genetically related either by actualy ancestry or by some of them might be a random mutation in the gene pool. Likewise we could say that anyone with a certain tone of dark skin are linked by that one gene that causes dark toned skin. An ethnic “race” is just a loose generalization of physical traits in humans, left over from when people didn’t know about genetics and thought the world was flat.
If you were to genetically engineer a human being with all the same genes as an Englishman, would he actually be English or would his lineage be more realistically linked to the PPL Thera-peutics Corporation?
I found this website while researching this genetic phenomenon. It’s a scientific study explaining it in detail. It’s a bit heavy on the medical jargon, but for people really interested, an online medical dictionary would help decipher most terms.
http://www.emedicine.com/derm/topic271.htm
The “Mongolian Blue Spot” is a regular trait of a certain gene pool. It is recorded as early as 370 AD, when the Huns first rode down from the Steppes of Asia. The Steppes range from Northeast of the Black Sea to- guess what- the western mainland of Korea. These Steppes are the common denominator of Most Asian (and most European peoples. The Huns had a blue tailbone- a genetic trait. The blue spot was a dominant trait in their gene pool, some of which remained on the Steppes and was spread to places like China (through the Mongolians of Ghenghis Khan). Through “dilution” of cultures and nations, the trait became less dominant. It got to the point where, in some cases, it’s dormant. It appears on some people, not at all, or fades away after some time. So, be proud of that spot. After all, the most fiercesome and powerful barbarians in history came from the Steppes.
hi guys,
as we are mongolians we all have had this BLUE SPOT when we were baby. I didn’t know that that many people had it.
I just want to say that those blues spots don’t appear only on East Asians, but EVERYWHERE in the world, in Europe, Africa, the Americas etc…
BTW, there is only one human race, and we all share common ancestry, there is no such thing as being full or pure blooded…
When people ask me what race (such an ugly word) I am, I answer earthling.
It is interesting how the blue spot appeares in so many continent, but I am sure the Mongoloid race is the cause of it. I am Indonesian and I was born with the blue bottoms, and we beleive our ancestors came from Mongol. Even though I am married to an english guy, our two children both had very clear blue bottoms marks, it faded away by the time they were 4 years old. It looked like the babies had sat on a ablue inkpads. We also have caucassian friends who adopted two Mexican babies, and they first freaked out when the took off the diapers of the first baby, they thought the baby was so terrible ill, the baby got blue bottoms, the paedatrician told them about the mongoloid blood in mexican people. With the second adopted baby they found the same blue marking, but this time round they are more prepared, no more freaking out…
I find this discussion fascinating. I just saw a special on the History Channel detailing the massive invasions of the Huns in the 400s and the Mongols in the 1200-1300s throughout much of the West and Middle East; the Mongol Empire of the 13th century stretched from Korea to part of Turkey. So I’m sure the blue spot gene has spread throughout all races. I myself am Korean-American and indeed have a faint remnant of the blue butt spot.
Someone asked about whether they heard a story about the association with a baby’s spirit and the blue spot. Koreans have a legend where before babies are born they live in a sort of pre-heaven supervised by a “samshim” grandmother. When babies are ready to be sent down to earth to be born, they usually put up a fuss because they don’t want to leave this pre-heaven. The grandma gets pissed and decides to spank some sense into the babies and ships them down to Earth, and hence they are born crying and have the blue spot as a scar from the grandma’s magic spanking. Maybe this is the life spirit being spanked into them as others have mentioned.
I was born with mongolians spots pretty much covering more than half of my body; namely my arms, legs and rump.
According to my mother, this (the blue patches) was completely normal however, the extent at which they were present on body was not.
My sisters all had the mongolian spots and by the time they were 5, they’d completely faded. Howver, in my case, being 16 (going on 17 this August), I’ve come to realise that these birthmarks aren’t going away. Sure, they’ve faded but are still noticeable, not so much on my arms but my legs.
To say the very least, i’m very self conscious of my birthmarks as when i wear shorts, I’m usually asked why i have so many bruises.
Still, these faded birthmarks are still a part of me and i guess, they’ll be with me for the rest of my life as blue-grey patches.
Dear Lisa
I have this mark since 16 and now i am nearly 40. the marks can be seen very well at my shoulder near the throat as well, in great green or blue depending on summer or winter time. I was at a specialist and he told me that the marks will stay and not grow anymore. (at 30 age).
The only thing that really is a nuisance are the people always asking stupid questions (as you).
my boys now do have not yet marks. i am curios if they shall turn up at the same age.
greetings betty
i just wanna know WHY i still have this map of australia on my ass
mmm…. it is really interesting to hear that someone can have this spots after birth (betty).maybe that is not the same like we have.
Our baby son has the “genghis trait” – he is of mixed race, russian, english, indian, turk and spanish !!
THIS BLUE SPOT JUST ON THE BUTT IN FIRST OF THE YEAR IT SUPPOSE TO ERASED BUT SOMEONE HAVE THIS SPOT FOREVER
MY COUSIN HAD MIXED WITH GERMANY AND MONGOLIAN HE HAS BIG BLUE MAP ON HIS BUTT
HE SHOW US WE WONDERED ABOUT THAT IT SUPPOSE TO ERASED WHEN HE WAS BABY BUT DID NOT
I THINK SOME SPECAIL SPOT CAN EXIST EVERY TIME AND NOT ONLY BUTT EVERY WHERE SUCH AS ON THE BACK HAND LEGS AND FACE
DONT WORRY ABOUT THAT VERY DEEPLY
ARYANS WERE VERY OLD OUR ANCIENT I THINK
SO SOME KOREAN AND JAPANESE NOT ALL AND LITTLE BIT NORTH OF CHINESE BABIES HAVE THIS SPOT
ON THER OTHER HAND IN EUROPE EARLY TIME IN 300-500 A.D MONGOLIAN ANCIENT HUNS MOVED TO EUROPE FROM ASIA THEY ALL HAD BLENDED IN EUROPE ACTUALLY IN HUNGARY AROUND THE BLACK SEA THAT IS ANSWER OF WHY MONGOLIAN SPOT SPREAD IN WHOLE WORLD
MIGHT BE NATIVE AMERICANS HAVE THIS GENETIC HERITAGE
IF YOU HAVE LITTLE BIT MONGOLIAN OR RELATED MONGOLIAN’S BLOOD IT IS REASON OF BLUE SPOT
hey echko
u cannot really say that. then how can u explain this spots which appear on AFRICANS.
i have no idea how it could spread in Africa.
i am half japanese and had the mongolian birth mark when i was born but it has disappeared. my mother (who is japanese) still has hers. by the way, doesn’t the spot most commonly appear on the lower back? anyways, i LOVE the greg album! half-japanese babies are the cutest little chubs in the world!
I’m 23 half spaniord half ecuadorian, and I still have a perfect blue circle on my left butt cheek. I’ve had it since birth.
Hello
My baby girl has been born with mongolian blue spots
She is completly covered on her back a big blue spot on her bum and blue tinges on her legs and arms. She has another big spot on her elbow. I am British but of Italian and Gypsie decent and my partner is of Black Carribean/Asian and Scottish decent. The peadiatrician at the hospital had never seen the blue spots to the extent that she has them they were not going to let her leave the hospital until they had a second opinion. She is now 2 months old and none of her marks have faded. Someone asked me if there is treatment for them which i answered NO! She looked at her as if it was some sort of skin disease. Someone else thought that later on in life she may get bullied but I just think it is something to make her look different to everyone else. She is still gorgeous no mater what colour her skin is.
Hello
My baby girl has been born with mongolian blue spots
She is completly covered on her back a big blue spot on her bum and blue tinges on her legs and arms. She has another big spot on her elbow. I am British but of Italian and Gypsie decent and my partner is of Black Carribean/Asian and Scottish decent. The peadiatrician at the hospital had never seen the blue spots to the extent that she has them they were not going to let her leave the hospital until they had a second opinion. She is now 2 months old and none of her marks have faded. Someone asked me if there is treatment for them which i answered NO! She looked at her as if it was some sort of skin disease. Someone else thought that later on in life she may get bullied but I just think it is something to make her look different to everyone else. She is still gorgeous no mater what colour her skin is.
All my family is spaniard, raised and born in Spain. As far as i know (and goes back to great-great-grandparents), all my father’s line children have had that mark. I was born with that mark, as well as my siblings and my father, uncle and cousins, grandfather and so on. It comes with the asian genes mixed there somewhere (and has to be from long ago since as i tell you none of my family lines goes to Asia or even America recently).
See it this way, if your kids have the spot… well, something nice to show when they grow up :D toosh with surprise (I’m 23 and i still have the brand there, even tho’ it’s pretty much gone).
NOMIO come on whats wrong with you hardly anyone one in this world hasn’t gentically mixed with others races. The Mongolian blue arent so much found in Africans but African Carribeans and African Americans. for example native americans mixed and traded with some people in Asia then native americans mixed with people that in the 400 hundred years slavrey moved africans down to the Carribean island that with populated by Native Amercians.Tell you what look up the indegious people of the carribean islands and Africa.
I had never heard this dark spot on the butt referred to as the Mongolian blue spot, but it is so common in black familes that it doesn’t even raise a comment. I think for us, and maybe some others,it must go back to our African heritage. Oh yes, it does fade in some but not all.
I had never heard this dark spot on the butt referred to as the Mongolian blue spot, but it is so common in black familes that it doesn’t even raise a comment. I think for us, and maybe some others,it must go back to our African heritage. Oh yes, it does fade in some but not all.
The reason why the Mongolian Blue Spot appears amongst some people in India is because of two groups the Hunas(a part of the Hephthalite/White Huns group) and Mughals(the word Mongol adapted for the Persian and Arabic script).
The Genetic Linkage between the Mongols and the Turks
Mongolian Blue Spot is an inherited birthmark found in many, but not all Mongolians, Turks, some Greeks, and many Asians and Native Americans. It is also commonly found among the Melungeon people of the Southern United States, who also claim Turkish origin.
The position varies but is generally just between the lower spine and the top of the buttocks. It resembles a dent, bluish in colour (hence the name) and often fades with age. It is not abnormal to have this condition which is merely a genetic marker showing the Mongol origins of the tribes which were ancestors of the Turks.
Mongolian Blue Spots occur amongst Native Americans because it is believed that their ancestors crossed a land bridge between Siberia and Alaska and then spreading down to North America.But genetic tests have recently shown that there are European genetic clusters present amongst Native Americans which have been dated to long before Europeans set foot on North America.
You don’t need to be asian to have the spots…
Both my daughters have Mongolian Blue spots,
I am a White New Zealander of European decent, my wife is Polynesian, SAMOAN.
As far as I’m aware the Mongols had nothing to do with the Samoans or the europeans for that matter, My girls, one nearly 3 and the other 8 months have very pronounced spots on their backs and buttocks, the eldest also has a little purple dot on her arm that I call her prison tattoo.
So to prove a point, you don’t need to be asian to have blue spots.
didn’t you read the this:
90% of infants of Mongoloid race (ie, East Asians, Indonesians, Polynesians, Micronesians, Amerindians, Eskimos).
and didn’t you know this:
Migrants from Southeast Asia arrived in the Samoan islands more than 2000 years ago and from there settled the rest of Polynesia further to the east.
Do Tibetans get the Mongolian Blue Spot?(Just curious)
I am 15 and i have a mongolian blue spot and all my family members carry one on there bum and lower back
recently we have found out we are hispanic and decend from spanish gypsys.
I am 18 and i am a student in london i have a mongolian blue spot im spainish and in spain it is not rare to get a blue spot i know lots of people who carry it
i also found out that my family decend from gypsys so i asked my great grandma about it and she said i have family in differant countries because our family is huge she said that the gypsys were travelers and traveled to differant countries and ended up settiling down in differant places
It is very interesting to find out that this spot is familiar to (or owned by) a huge fraction of the world population. Actually I am a Mongol and my parents told me that only Mongols carry the blue spots. We refer to our country as “Blue Mongol” because of this spot as some would say (others would say because of the blue sky).
After reading the posts here, I think that the spot is not only connected to Mongols but to some ancestors of Mongols (or Huns), because Native Americans must have left North-East Asia at least several thousand years ago, that is before the “Bering connection” went under the Pacific Ocean.
For those who have the blue spot on their children: Do not worry the spots will disappear when the child is 3 or 4. A someone said, it is really a pride.
I have never seen a mongol who keeps the spot as an adult nor seen anyone had this suddenly at a later age. The latter seems some other stuff, not the “Mongolian spot”.
TG
I agree with your post TG what I do not believe the Mongolian Blue Spot is a purely Mongolian phenomena.But it originated in North East Asia.The Huns(Xiongnu)homeland was in Siberia not Mongolia although after studying their culture there are some starling resemblances(for example the Huns used composite bows which bears a resemblance to the later Mongolian composite bows but the same could be said about earlier composite bows such as the Sycthian composite bow).
type in samarkandia on google search and you will find pictures of composite bows replicas
to hun
did u know that archeologists still find very fine graves (i don’t know the exact word)from Hun(xiongnu)time in Mongolia. especially from royal families by the Mt.Noyon (King). It is true that we mongolians are not direct descendants but we originated from them.
i am 15 years old and i was born with a mongolian birthmark and it never faded away.And it is not on my back or buttoks it is on the right hand side of my face. both my parents are african american and my mother has some native american in her i wanna know how is this possible for me to have one and it not fade
well the native americans did happen to originate in siberia and the point that I am making is that the trait may not necessarily be Mongolian.i still have my mongolian blue spot and i believe i inherited my Mongolian blue spot from the Mughals who were the Muslim descendants of the Mongols and an offshoot of the Timurids established by Timur I Leng (a Turko-Mongol as well).
by the way nomio i saw a programme about the last years of the roman empire and it focused on barbarians such as the huns,they showed a hungarian man who was a hun enthuasist and stayed in a modern recreation of a ger and did horse archery.I have been spending this week in Japan and I went to the Expo Aichi 2005 in Nagoya and when i went to the Mongolian pavilion i noticed the startling resemblance between the recreation of an old Mongolian ger and the recreation of the Hunnic ger that i had seen in the programme.
I am merely emphasizing the similarity between Huns of 5th Century AD and Mongols of 13th Century AD
but now I am starting to doubt the Mongolian Blue Spot is Siberian because how come Hispanic people get it?
and East Africans?
Well, if we agree that it is very unlikely that the blue spots appear around the world as resluts of the random genetic mutations, then we have to accept that anyone (or almost anyone) who has the Mongolian blue spot inherited it from one (and only one) ancient tribe whose genetic make-up is consistent with the blue spot. What is more, it is very likely that that tribe was living in central-north-east Asia (the territory of nowadays Mongols). Therefore those Hispanic and East African people must have something to do with Mongol-Turks or Turko-Mongols. As you know Mongols reached Baghdad, nowadays eastern Turkey and made an active contribution to the history of Arabs and Persians. North-East Africa and Spain are perhaps the most influenced by the Muslim world during the middle ages.
TG
Now it is commonly accepted that the human race is originated in Africa and migrated to all the places. There were at least two mega migration from Africa to Asia: one following the south of Himalaya, the other following the north of Himalaya. The one in south must have been the ancestors of Chinese and south-east Asians. The one in north became the origin of the central asian nomads, including those who went to America. My theory is that those tribes who came to Asia through the northern path carried the genes corresponding to the blue spot.
TG
actually that does make sense but there is one problem with my ancestry the further I go back in the history of Turkic peoples of Central Asia the harder it becomes to distinguish the ancestors of the Mongols and Turkic peoples of Central Asia(perhaps their ancestors are one and the same?) I have heard of Turkic graves being found in Mongolia(perhaps this is a clue?).
My daughter (5 months old) has the mongolian blue spot on her lower back and bottom, and recently, this has also appeared on the backs of her shoulders. Her lower back and bum is getting darker and there are small round spots appearing on her spine. Does anyone know of the spots “spreading”??? My doctor has sent her for blood tests and is sending her to a specialist to find out more about it. My husband and I are both caucasion, not that there couldnt be other ethnic background somewhere down the line, but we had never heard of the spot before now. When she was born, I thought something had happened to her during birth and boy was I scared. Any information would be great. Email me directly if at all possible, michelemoulton@hotmail.com. Please include topic in subject area.
to TG
well apparently most of the Mongol empire converted to Islam and they had to abandon their old habits of drinking alcohol and drinking horse blood when times were difficult and water was scarce during campaigns.In the Il Khanate(which comprised of modern day Iran,Iraq,Azerbaijan,Armenia and parts of Turkmenistan) this Khanate eventually collapsed and became part of the Safavid and Ottoman Empire.
The Chagatai Khanate was the last Khanate to convert to Islam but it produced Timur I Leng(Tamerlane) who attempted to recreate the declining Mongol empire in the mid 14th century and the beginning of the 15th Century his kingdom fragmented after his death and one of his descendents in the 16th Century founded the Mughal empire which lasted until 1858.
In the Golden Horde (which comprised of modern day Ukraine,most of what was Russia at the time which were principalities and parts of Kazakhstan)this Khanate eventually broke up into four independent Khanates one of which was called the Crimean Khanate which would survive until 1783 when it was annexed by Catherine the Great.
To TG
I found some information which supports for your theory to explain the ocurrence of the Mongolian Blue Spot but it seems to deepen the mystery of human origins further as well.It seems that the explanation for the Mongolian Blue Spot may lie further back in human evolution.What I found out is that Rosalind Harding,a population specialist at the Institute of Biological Anthropology in Oxford found that a gene that appears in an archaic hominind known as Java Man and is known to occur in East Asia can also be found in the English county of Oxfordshire this gene arose more than 200,000 years ago.I am not referring to the gene that causes Mongolian Blue Spot but this is an example of a gene occuring in places far apart from each other.Perhaps this could explain why the Mongolian Blue Spot has a random occurence amongst populations(assuming the Mongolian Blue Spot is genetic)
TG did you base your theory of the Mongolian Blue Spot originating from tribes who traveled north of the Himalayas on the genetic findings of Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza? ,his findings confirms two migrations out of Africa in to Asia and a boundary between the two migration groups which approximates the Yangtze River (his findings were based on a larger amount of genetic samples than previous studies).
to hun,
I heard about that migrations from a specialist. Probably he was aware of the research you mentioned. For me it seems very reasonable, for there are considerable (biological) differences between north- and south-east Asians.
I think the one who founded the Mughal empire was Temurling’s grandson Babur.
It is true that Turkic graves and stone monuments are found in Mongolia. Actually Turkic and Mongolic (Altaic) provinces made up the Hun empire, and after Syanbi and Jujan which were the empires on the milestone of the Huns, Turkic provinces overpowered mongolic provinces and formed an empire called Tureg. Turag’s territory is exactly nowadays Mongolia. In central Asia, after the Tureg there were two Turkic empires called Uighur (Xinjian Uighur is now part of China) and Khirgis (origin of the name Kyrgiz). And around 9-th century when another province Kidan (origin of the name Kitai) become powerful in the region, Turkic people started moving to west.
My wild guess is that Turkic and Mongolic (and American Indians) people are descendants of the same tribes that migrated from Africa on the north of Himalaya, and because of some geographical causalties they became what they are now. While some of the tribes went further to the north-east in finding their fate in America, some of the tribes could have interacted with (ancestors of) Persians and Arabs more than the others.
TG
Reading the comments here has been fascinating !
My health visitor has just pointed out the faint blue-grey patch on the top of my baby boys bum – he’s 7 months old & I never noticed it(yes he does get a bath, but its not a dark patch). Both my husband & all our family are English with only a bit of Irish/Welsh thrown in. However I can remember people asking if I had Asian blood in me due to my skin colour & eyeshape – I’ll never know the whole truth but it’s wonderful to think that we are all mixed together & related somehow.
TG I think I will take a genetic test(I know somebody who is taking a course in anthropology) and see if your hypothesis is correct about the origin of the Mongolian Blue Spot
To TG
Mongolian Blue Spot may or may not be linked to a genetic mutation as some people in this discussion suggest but I don’t believe it is useful as a genetic marker.But I guess I will find this out
To TG
Mongolian Blue Spot may or may not be linked to a genetic mutation as some people in this discussion suggest but I don’t believe it is useful as a genetic marker.But I guess I will find this out when I take a genetic test(which will have to be specific and not restricted to merely East Asian,European,Native Americans or African)
to hun,
I am eager to hear the outcome.
TG
I am spanish evryone in europe are classed as being white. Because we are really its just like in africa you can get black people who are darker or lighter than the others. But people do say some spanish people have a tiny bit of arab in them like morroco. Because it borders and southern french people have northern spanish in them. Because it borders i have a blue spot on my butt my boyfriend does to. I dont know why.We are puzzled about it really *fgs\g*greagh*ht*
yes i agree arlena i have one to i am spanish im from Costa del sol. You do get dark and fair people who are spanish. And really most are dark because of the sun and some are dark naturaly because they may have small amount of arebic in them. Maybe a mongolian pirate thing has gone on in the meditaranian sea. Well meditaranian countries italian, spanish, greek, french and all the other meditaranian countries. Some people have differant names for the blue spot. I know some people who call it meditaranian blue because oviously many meditaranian people carry it.
Please relax about this so called “mongolian blue spot”. We are 100% Ethiopians, for some of you who do not recognize this name is in Africa. All of our children had blue spot and also pointed to us by the ped. doctor. All he commented to us was that it was interesting. He did ask us if we had asian blood. we explainded to him we can recite and know beyond the 7th generation on both sides of our parents as oral history is very important in our culture and we know all the people in our community and intermarry only within our community. We do genetic counseling before we get married i.e. to insure that we did not marry a relative . Therefore beyound the the 7th generation is a standard. In summary we do not have asian blood.
Well, IMHO just as blue spot does not prove that you have asian blood, a good knowledge of your 7 or so generations does not prove that you do not have asian blood.
Hi, I’m Romanian, yeah, blonde, green eyes and have no connection as far as I know with Asians, either Gypsies or Hungarians. I’ve never heard Romanians speaking about this Asian spot, but I know that it isn’t rarerely found at Hungarian babies. How is it possible?
Well, the “native” (in some sense) land of Hungarians is Siberia, that is, the place nowadays people of Mongol (and some Turkic) origin live. Hungarians and Finnish people made a migration from central asia, and their languages belong to the group of Turkic-Altaic languages, which includes Mongolian, Turkish, Turkmen, Kazakh, Kyrgiz and many other languages. Therefore I think the fact that Hungarians have blue spots does not contradict with the thesis.
I have to clarify that Siberia is originally the land of Mongols, even though now it controlled by Russia and a large part of the population there is Russians.
Just to add to the debate, a close friend is Guatemalan, with a mix of aboriginal and Spanish ancestry… Everyone in his family has the spot.
/d
I found some informations on Mongolian Spots:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_spot
http://www.tokyo-med.ac.jp/genet/msp/index.htm
Both my children had the spot on their backs. It gradually dissapeared. I had forgotten about it with both children, and then one day noticed it wasn’t there any more.
For my first born during the first visits to the pedi doctor I asked what it was. He said not to worry, that it would fade away. I later found out that Sepharadic Jews have it in great numbers. This would mean Jews of Europe, Africa, north, central and south America. It also means folks whose ancestors were once Jewish..given the inquisition and mass conversion to christianity. So, for my children it came from our portugese Jewish ancestry. The doctor was an ashkenazi Jew, but had seen the mark many times over the years.
Since then I have come across others, usually hispanic, talking about the mark and wondering why their children had had it. My guess is that, since the sepharadic Jews ended up all over the world, so too the spot. I wouldn’t say that only Sepharadic Jews had it. But, apparently they shared a gene pool with many folks who did.
Marcy
Hi
I have been reading up on Mongolian Blue spots, as i still have one. I am 24, white, have 2 white parents and grandparents. Its 8.5 inches, looks like the map of florida and chages colour from time to time.
most of the info i have read mentions the birthmark dissapperas by the time you are 6 and you have eastern decent. I have neither of these and really wonder why i have, and still have a mogolian blue spot. What reason would i have to have this?
Kind Regards
A curious
Michelle
I’m full Korean and every Korean I know have the blue spot when they’re young. The mongolian mark is so ingrained in our folklore that there are old wives tales that the baby is being slapped so it would come out of the womb. My son who is 100% Korean has a large deep blue spot and so did all my nieces and nephews who are 100% Korean, one of my nephews on the other hand is half Korean and has a lighter and smaller birthmark. In addition, my girlfriend who is 1/4 Korean and her son who is 1/8 Korean has a very light mark which is almost all gone and he is only 2. Her cousin’s daughter who is also 1/8 Korean and has blue eyes and blond hair however did not have the mark.
In college I asked my Chinese friends (mostly Cantonese and one Hakka) about the blue mark and they looked at me like I was crazy. My Japanese friend heard of it and said it happened in Japanese children but it wasn’t by 100% it just wasn’t uncommon. My babysitter who is from the Philippines was baffled when she saw my son’s butt. I had to explain that it’s a birthmark and not a bruise. She was here with her friend (who is also Pilipino) and they said they never heard of it.
BTW I disagree with the post that states that it is commonly known that Koreans are a mix of Mongolian and Chinese. The Koreans came from central Asia to present day Manchuria and Korean peninsula around 3000 BC and though I’m not saying that Koreans have never intermarried in the past (I’m pretty sure they have) it’s a different thing to say that they are composed of Mongolian and Chinese people. If you read about Korean history, Koreans were known to keep to themselves and not intermarrying– so much so it led to their downfall during the Kourgyo Kingdom. Also Koreans have very distinct features (closer to Mongolians) than Chinese.
to Michelle,
I think your spot is not exactly the kind that is commonly known as the Mongolian spot. But from that it is harmless, it might belong to a generalized notion of Mongolian spot in medical terms.
TG
I was born a pre mature baby back in May 1972, I was 2 1/2 months early. I was born not with the mongolian blue mark but with strawberry birth marks on the bottom of my feet. I read that only native american babies and chinese babies are born with these birth marks. I also read that pre mature babies are born with these birth marks as well. I was told that on my mom’s side there’s american Indian (way back)on my maternal great-great grandmother’s side. On my father’s side is Hungarian (on his maternal mother’s side). I’ve heard American Indians as well as Hungarians have an asiatic gene is this true, and could this be the reason why I had the strawberry birth marks on my feet when I was born? They fell off after awhile, and I don’t have the birth marks. Thanks, I appreciate the help and information. vk in Ohio
to vk in Ohio,
It is true that American Indians and Hungarians have genetic connections with Asians. American Indians migrated 10-20 thousands years ago from Central Asia, and a long time ago Hungarians were living somewhere in Sibiria. However, I think that your birthmark does not have something to do with the blue spots.
TG
Both me and my sister had one of these blue spots when we were born, but my mum and dad are both English and so is everyone else in our family, can anyone explain this? When they took us to the doctors he said he reckons its because we have mediterranean blood in us and that it could have skipped a few generations, could that be true?
wow! you have a lot of comments here. i was googling to find info on the blue eyed mongolian tribes, and happened upon this. my husband is from india, and i am american of mixed european ancestry. both kids have mongolian spots, even the one who has light brown/blond hair (despite me having dark brown hair, though my sister had similar hair as a child, even though our parents were dark brown and red hair).
genes mix up in funny ways, don’t they? my half japanese friend (black hair and brown eyes), has kids with a blond haired blue eyed man (polish and other n. euro. ancestry). one is blond haired with green eyes, the other reddish brown/blond hair and hazel eyes. you’d have a tough time recognizing them as 1/4 japanese! not sure if they had the mongolian spots.
I’m original Mongolian man.When i was born i have blue spot on my back my childrens and my wife everyone of who is original Mongolians it has.It’s true but after sometimes it disappered it self.So i’m very proud of this great generatic who doesn’t have mostly(not Mongolian),except Mongolians.
I was discussing the Mongolian blue spot in context with the fall of the Roman Empire when one of my students exclaimed that her family carries the trait. I found this astounding given that the genetic marker has made its way to Santa Fe, New Mexico. The doctors couldn’t explain it, so it was assumed by the family to be some sort of birth defect. I carefully traced the link. In the Salvidrez family the lineage stretches back to Mexico and then to Spain. From there to the Visigoth kingdom that took root briefly in Iberia. From there we reach back to Gaul where the Gothic-Roman army finally put an end to Attila’s mischief in the latter half of the 5th Century. And then all the way back eventually to Mongolia. I was floored.
Could someone please settle a problem for me a friend is convinced that he is not the biological father to his child as she has a mongolian blue spot on her buttocks and neither him or his ex partner have any decents from any of the ethnic backgrounds which mongolian blue spot are commonly found.
Thanks
My Children have it. I use to. We are hispanic indians from mexico and my grandmothers are from spain.
hi, i have a 7 month old boy he has blue spots. we had to take him to hospital at one stage because we thought they we brouses but we couldn’t think were they could have come from. now i am torn between who is the father. out of three men, one is Indian, one is, greek and one turkish. witch one is more lickly to be the father?
There are Mongolian blue spots in my mothers family.my uncle was born with it and so was his daughter,my 1st cousin.my cousins two children were also born with the Mongolian blue spot.this is what i know of in my family and no doubt there were others that were born with it but there parents thought it was bruising from the birth.nowadays blue spots are recorded to prevent any future allegations of child abuse as it could take some years for the marks to dissapear. My grand mother was very dark and so was her brother Abe,who was born in a tent in Kent,southern England,in 1915.their mother was born into a Romany Gypsy family with the clan surname of Ayres.the family had a long history of being decended from leaders and heads of their large extended families. The southern English Gypsy families of Ayres,Cooper,Lee,Stanley and Smith are of purer Romany bloodlines and many other travelling families claim some blood relationships to them.When my cousin was born the doctors asked my aunt how the Mongolian blue spot got into the family and that it was a true Jews spot.Gypsies have been called the lost tribe of Abraham,but recent evidence has suggested that a tribe of people living in Africa who are black skinned contain Jewish DNA and claim Jewish decent which matches the bibles account of a lost tribe. The only possibility of the Mongolian spot in our family is from our great Grandmothers Romany blood.i have heard of a few other half blooded Gypsy babies born with the blue spot in my imediate area also a half Turkish lad and a half Hungarian lad.Our sons are dark and swarthy skinned but didnt have the blue spot,our eldest daughter was called a Eskimo baby by the midwifes because of her mop of jet black hair and round face with oriental eyes.Blue spots are folklored as being the Mongolian sign of royalty and the Chinese legend asossiates the marks with reincarnation. Romany Gypsies originated from north west India and left this region about 1000 years ago,long before the Mughal rulres conquered the land.the Romanies travelled through Persia and into the Byzantine empire.a long stay in now modern day Greece and a place known at the time of the Crusades as Little Egypt,a large tented city around the outskirts of Modon,and a memory of another long abode travelling in the Levant and a area now in modern day Turkey,also named Little Egypt by the common people in the Middle ages,because of the great fertility of the land,possibly Little Armenia.The Little Egyptians,Egyptians,Gyptians,Gypsies,converted to Christianity before being forced to leave by the invading Turks up into the Balkans and spreading into the rest of Europe.Gypsy migration split three ways,one tribe went into Europe another into Africa along the northern territories and into Spain spreading the fortune telling and exotic belly dances they developed in the east.another tribe of Romanies went up into Russia.there have been more than one Gypsy migration from their land known as Little Egypt. The Mongolian invading armies of Genghis Khan may have came into contact with the Gypsies,who also lived in tents and traded in horses.marriages mixed along the Romany migration could also be with the Hun decendants who settled by the Danube in Hungary in large numbers.the Huns are from the Asian steppes as are the Mongols,Tartars and Turks,i suspect that the Romany Gypsy nomads also decended from this region originally before they travelled through the Hindu Kush into the Indus valley.it has been proved that north American Indians crossed over the Bering strait from Mongolian Asia when the continents were joined by ice. Attila the Huns invasion of the Roman empire in the 5th century took them deep into europe.there is a region in France that has a very high percentage of babies born with the Mongolian blue spots and history suggests that a section of Attilas Hun army settled in this area.The Germans were called the Hun because of their close alliances with the Steppe invaders. Alexander the great conquered deep into the Hindu Kush and he and his soldiers took wifes from the tribes they came across which could also explain the blue spot being present in Mediterranean babies.DNA samples in an area of Wales seemed to match that of an area where the Phoenician people came from who were widely travelled sea traders and famed pirates who may have had a fleet shipwrecked upon the Welsh shores.The Vikings were also sea traders who sailed to the East bringing back with them Mediterranean and Asian slaves and ancient knowledge.the Vikings settled large colonies of Ireland.The first records of Romany Gypsies,Egyptians,in Great Britain was in Scotland in 1505.the Gypsies held great favour with the Scotish king before being banished from the realm.the Spanish and French authorities were deporting Gypsies upon arrival during the 15th and 16th centuries and many came to the Britosh Isles,and possibly Ireland,with ships captains who offloaded their cargo of passengers upon these shores after having received payment from their crown.later generations of gypsies were deported from Europe to the Americas and Australia,the West Indies and the Caroliners were favorate places the state transported their Gypsy men women and children sometimes entire families split up. The Mongolian blue spot is obviously a strong genetic fingerprint that is spread far and wide but its origins are certainly Oriental from the Mongolian steppes of Asia and are passed through genes into families sometimes even missing generations so when a throwback child is born with dark skin and black hair the spot appears.Alot of Gypsy children are born dark then turn fair headed then as they get older turn darker again.Romany Gypsies or traveller families with Romany blood speak with affection and remember those that were and are born of the dark blood.it is a proud thing to be dark and of swarthy Romany looks.Many Gypsy families have hidden their past and due to persecution have chose to intergrate with the settled community.some people may not know they have Romany blood as with the native American Indians the late 19th and 20th centuries held enormous changes to centuries of habit and lifestyle and to those Gypsy families who still hang proudly onto their heritage it is one of the last ethnic social prejudices to be suffered into the 21st century. All interesting stuff! KUSHTI BOK
I’ve just read the whole thing dating back a few years! Absolutely fascinating. My son was born with a mongolian blue spot. It’s so interesting to read how the invasions and movements around the world will have left this genetic heritage. I was adopted and, although I am British I am very dark and Mediterranean looking. I have met my genetic father who is where these looks come from but he never knew who his father was. Does anyone know where one can get tests to establish likelihood of genetic heritage as I would be interested in having the test. Several members of our family are often asked where we are from and I would love to be able to answer!
Wow, so much history on this blog. I had googled mongolian blue spot to learn about the scientific facts about it, since it is of high incidence in african americans. All of the comments makes sense, but yet it makes no sense that any culture would wander into a land mass and not find someone already living there. I laugh everytime I hear the Bering Strait theory, except that these Asians crossing over met with the natives already in incidence there at the time. My background is African American, Choctaw, Cherokee, Cree, German Jewish. I have 5 sisters we all had the mongolian beauty mark I guess via the African, Native American and Jewish genetics. Most likely this will pass down for generations to come. My daughter who bears at least half of the above genes also carries the genes of her Austrian-Jewish dad. Her daughter has the Mongolian mark in the cleft of her little butt cheeks and on both upper arms, just below her shoulders. My granddaughter’s dad, is African American, Blackfoot and Scottish. This will assure that the Mongolian blue spot from our Asian ancestors will be going around for a long, long time…
a lot of East Africans are Chinese descendants. It is all becuase of the voyages of made by “Zheng He”.
you all need to google the title mongolian blue spot and check out some of the encyclopidia answers. They will go into detail on what % of what culture could possibly have the spot… Stop guessing and just google… it is so much easier than reading all this ….. stuff
hahahaa! What a cute way of showing your roots! I am Tibetan and all four kids in my family were born with the blue dot on the ass. Mine faded when I was younger but the other 3 still have theirs smack dab in the middle of their booties. LMAO! My father’s side comes from Western Tibet and his side of the family has always laid claim to being direct descendants of Genghis Khan.
My daughter was born with mongolian blue spots. I think this so fasinating. It’s just so awesome how our genes work. My mother is mixed with who knows what. She has long blonde curly hair and gorgeous big green eyes. My father is black and native american(hopi). I take after my father but my daughters father is also black and native american. Now I’m wondering what else we might be mixed with? even though I know why she has them.
Cheq.
Hmm…I’m 100% Chinese and i had a huge Mongolian spot when I was born, but since then it has faded away completely except for one small patch. So now, i still have part of a Mongolian spot. Yes, i agree, Mongolian spots are most often found on Asians, but they can be found on others from different cultures. i looked up on Google that 95% chance that Asians (esp. those from East Asia) will have a Mongolian spot and around 5% that Caucasians get it. I have two brothers. one of them has one and it has faded away almost completely and the other one has no spot at all! so i guess it’s just chance that you get the spot.
In my family, we have this little story about the spots. we say that they exist because just before we were born, the Buddha kicked us (on the butt) down from a cloud in heaven so that’s why we have the Mongolian spot – it’s a bit like a sacred bruise from the Buddha. i often tease my brother who doesn’t have the spot, that he was dumb enough to fall off the cloud instead of getting kicked! LOL!
Thanks sis and we ain’t 100% Chinese ya know.
I’m 29 years old and I still have both of my blue spots one on each arm. The one on the right arm is much larger than the one on the left. My mom says that when I was born they told her that I was a Mongolian and that the nurses thought I was an Asian baby!! I never really thought much of it myself. I had many people asked if it was a bruise when I was younger. I am considered African American mind you l.o.l. As a child growing up many people asked me if I were Chinese or Pilipino; even my husband when we first met. I begin to do research and found a lot of information concerning the blue spot. I have also learned that the shape of the skull can also differentiate Mongolians from other nationalities. I do have Caucasian, Indian, African American, and other blood obviously. It is a journey and an adventure to learn more about my birth mark ï�Š
Does anyone know of any clinic in the world where these can be removed? i have a large spot across my back and chest and in my mid 20′s. I am willing to go anywhere to remove it
What is bumburbia?
I was born in Trinidad and my grandfather came from China and I have been able to witness each of my children being born with the Mongolian blue spot. After doing some research myself, I have come to find out that the blood line goes back to the Mongolian Hun tribe. Small world. After reading some of the comments on this site, it was quite fascinating. Just seeing how far and how much different races got mixed in with this blood line. It’s all good.
I have a small one just above my coccyx. Mine never faded. I am Spanish, Mexican, Sicilian, Albanian, English. Scots, Irish, French and German. I look pretty white, but can tan like anything. Who knows where the Hun blood came from. I should send my DNA to that lab that traces mitochondrial DNA.
I am 40 and 100% chinese (as far as I know) though I have often been asked if I am mixed as I have european eyes (with eyelid) but otherwise chinese features. I was reminded recently I was born with the blue spot – one on my shoulder and one on my bottom. I checked and they are still there.! The reason I checked is a friend’s boy has the blue spot but both parents are fair skinned europeans – though she does look like she has mediterranean or middle eastern influence – and we had this conversation yesterday. This website has so much information I couldn’t resist adding my comment.
It seems to be quite rare to still have the spots when you reach adulthood.
I didn’t realise it is so widespread. i am going to check with my parents and all my siblings and neices/ nephews. I had never thought to ask them about this before not really having realised there was a genetic significance!
My husband is causasian english (though he says he might have spanish in the distant past) and I wonder what our kids will be like and if they have the blue mark.
I have a two week baby girl with the mongolian blue spot on her left ancle …. her father and I are from Mexico… and I am wondering if anyone had the spot on the leg and faded away, and how long it took???
Thanks :D
We are both Irish caucasian and our baby has a mongolian bluespot which the doctors were intrigued by – we think its very exciting to see evidence of our ancestors make an appearance in our boy!
100 percentage of Mongolian kids have blue spot. For other nations, it is between 99 to 0 percent, depending on whether they mixed into Mongolians’ ancestors within last 15 thousand years, probably. Some surprise how can eastern europeans have such thing. Someone, who is able browse history resources, can easily know that Mongolians made 2 major migration to Europe within last 2 thousand years. Mongolian culture and language might have disappeared in one generation, but some gene stays there.
TRY THIS : http://www.mpfwp.org/introduction.php
mongolian blue spot = mongolyn khokh tolbo (монголын Ñ…Ó©Ñ… толбо – in mongolian language)
Three generations of continual warfare in the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries conducted by the family of Temujin, the Mongol man who was given the title Genghis Khan, yielded a people connected globally by a shared physical trait, the appearance of blue spots on their buttocks during babyhood.
A 2003 report in the American Journal of Human Genetics, entitled “The Genetic Legacy of the Mongols,� begins, “We have identified a Y-chromosomal lineage with several unusual features. It was found in sixteen populations throughout a large region of Asia, stretching from the Pacific to the Caspian Sea, and was present at high frequency: 8 percent of the men in this region carry it, and it thus makes up 0.5 percent of the world total. The pattern of variation within the lineage suggested that it originated in Mongolia—a thousand years ago. Such a rapid spread cannot have occurred by chance; it must have been a result of selection. The lineage is carried by likely male-line descendants of Genghis Khan, and we therefore propose that it has spread by a novel form of social selection resulting from their behavior.�
Non-religious scholars have a hard time explaining what motivated a man raised as a herder and hunter to expend so much effort conquering so much territory. Professor Morris Rossabi, a professor of Central Asian History at Columbia University, writes, “Thus, the rise of Chinggis Khan [There are various ways of rendering Mongol names and words into English script. Professor Rossabi is using the form most common in Mongolia, home of Chinggis Khan International Airport.] and the creation of a great Mongol confederation were aberrations. An ecological crisis, commercial conflicts with neighbors, and a reported belief or injunction from the Sky God to Chinggis to dominate the world probably prompted the Mongols’ explosion from Mongolia early in the thirteenth century.�
Father Moon’s straightforward explanation seems to be in line with the genetic report. As the Mongolian Empire spread, so did the lineage of Cain and Shem, the first son of Adam and the first son of Noah. He called the Mongolian Peoples’ Federation for World Peace—representative of those lineages—“a movement to comfort God’s heart of pain over Adam’s family.â€�
I have a blue birthmark on my upper left arm. It hurts when I get sick or start to get sick…kind of like an early warning system. Anyone else’s birthmark do that. Oh, it get hot too when I get sick. I’ve had it since birth and I am 53. Two of my 4 children have various birthmarks as do their children….
My grandma always used to say, “Don’t shake the family tree too hard, you never know what may fall out!” I don’t understand that, but I always thought she meant that we were many nationalities and races…besides that, she had a brother who was a horse thief :)
This is truly a reMARKable saga of the ‘bruise’ since Nils’ ‘surfing’ incident. =) I AM grateful to learn from the intellectual thoughts revealed here and thankful for some laughs as well.
(I still have my butt-mark after more than 3 decades since being a premature baby, Asian decent, and has a mind open to spirituality)
A curious link, relating to reincarnation and birthmarks:
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/1687
I am 100% Chinese. All my relatives and cousins have the blue mark. It’s a Chinese folklore that the Goddess of birth slapped the babies butt to push the baby out of the womb. All the Chinese i know so far has the blue mark when they were born. I believe it should be called Mongoloid blue spot, instead of Mongolian Blue Spot because clearly we don’t have Mongol blood.
the spots come from mongolian ancestors, alaska, native americans
I have been mesmerized by all this information, thank you everyone for being so generous. I was born with a blue spot, but it was almost Indigo blue on my left arm. It faded by the time I was 5, and I’m now 44; however, there is a slight greyish tinge where it used to be. I find it comforting because I know it represents my entire family’s genetic journey. I am Mexican American, but it was recently revealed that my maternal great- great- grandmother was French and German. She married my great-great grandfather during the Mexican- French war, so because she was an “enemy” no one was allowed to talk about her. But before my grandfather’s memories were lost to Alzheimers he revealed to us that his grandmother was French, and we always figured as such since several family members have blue eyes. He never mentioned the German part, and I found that out by accident, her surname was Weis, so you can’t get any more German than that, and well, that’s probably where the blue eyes come from. Anyhow, my father’s family is Spanish American, and they settled in Santa Fe, New Mexico, 400 years ago. They eventually migrated further north and stayed in So. Colorado’s, San Luis Valley. As conquistadores, they came to this country with only men so they married with the Native American women. I’m guessing that is where I get my blueness. Not a bad journey, and what a great story in my little blue grey spot.
I have a 17 year old daughter, she was born with the BLUESPOT on her bum, my husband and i are both white welsh and so are our familys. She is very dark skinned with very dark brown eyes. everyone asks her is she of mixed race. it amazes us /were did the spot come from? . she is the double of her dad but WHY is she so dark?
The old Cossack theory for how one got the genes may not be valid, but it seems to be something necessary to reinforce group identity. I’ve heard it a lot. Well, here’s another theory: intermarriage in the past, or even conversion. How many ancestors do you have from 300 years ago? More than a thousand. It doesn’t take long to have a lot of people doing a lot of things, not just being victimized. I say this because my son had the Mongolian blue spot. And even though I have one more commonly Asian trait (type B blood) from a traceable source, a Prussian grandmother, my siblings (there were seven, and I diapered some of them) never had the blue spot. I first saw it in an emergency room when a Mexican mother changing her child’s diaper explained it to my mother and we both marveled at it. Then I married a Hungarian Jew. I am sure that he had at least some Magyar ancestry (not only Jewish), because everyone in his family looks like Hungarians rather than Russian Jews who are so prevalent in the US. They have very smooth skin, not much hair on their arms and legs, and a kind of tendency to a yellowish cast to the skin, which tans well. None of them has been able to grow a really thick beard to my knowledge. It turns out that Hungarian is a nationality whose Asian heritage is one of the most dominant in Europe, and they really do show a lot of inheritance from the horsemen who invaded them when the place was no longer a colony of the Roman Empire. Those horsemen stayed. They weren’t just out to pillage. And that’s why my son has his blue spot – from them, and not just Cossacks victimizing people. Or that is how I prefer to see it. Sometimes it’s possible to adopt another mythology – none of us knows the whole truth. In Hungary, I guess they think the horsemen were greeted as liberators. Well, if that suits them, it does me.
I JUST found out about this recently and had no idea. My dad suddenly decided to give me a little history of Korea. So, Koreans are descendants of Mongolians. But, they’re not the ONLY descendants. The mongolians originated somewhere in Asia, and a group of them migrated south, another group of them migrated east, and another group migrated across the bering strait when it used to be connected by ice during the Ice Age. That group that migrated across the ice bridge migrated all the way down to South America, which explains the mongolian blue spot on Native Indians in the Americas. Not all of them have this any more today because of their decreased population due to the conquistadors, their inter”breeding” and wiping out almost all of the native indian population with disease.
Of the Asians, Koreans for sure have the mongolian blue spot, and Tibetans. MOST japanese and Chinese people don’t have this blue spot. I’m not sure about other ethnicities.
My daughter’s “blue spot” is still faintly discernable at age 14!!! Her father is half Japanese, I’m mostly Irish. Even with that watered down ancestry she still has the spot.
I am 21, and when I was very young I developed that blue spot, then went when I was two yrs old. My father is English and mother welsh, it was found to be a blue spot when found not to be a bruise my mother was also asked if my father was black or mixed, they’re both White, it was on my lower back also before I was born an ultrasound, scan told my mother I was a male, and boy did I give everyone a shock, coming out a female! I would love to know more about this and where another piece of me lies in the world.
I am 23 and I am Turkish. I had same blue spot. My mom told me that, me and my sister were born with a blue spot. We say that it is normal for Turkic babies.
My husband is from Bangladesh (a part of India until 1947) and I am mostly Scots-Irish. Both my daughters were born with the mongolian blue spot in the tail bone area. My older daughter had a blue spot the size of a pear, and my younger daughter had a blue spot the size of a plum. In time, both spots faded.
As far as i know, I am 100% white British. My parents and grandparents also white British. My husband and his side of the family (parents and grandparents) – all white. No Asian links anywhere in our history. Our baby was born with a large brown birthmark on her cheek – and what i now know is a small Mongolian Blue Spot birthmark on her buttock – about the size of my thumbnail and irregular in shape. (i thought somehow she’d got a bruise – but it’s still there a year later!) I’ve heard of genetic throwbacks, so who knows if there were any mixed race children born way back in our family histories!
I am american with a little bit of irish, german and italian in me and my babys father is 100% mexican. my son is four months and about a month ago I noticed a bluish gray mark right above his butt. Does he have the mongolian blue spot?
Hi all,
Well… Mongolian spot appearance is irregular.
If you are wondering why seemingly all white parentage produces a blue spot, check your ancestry. If you parents or grand parents came from Eastern Europe you have a good chance to have a blue spot.
Why? Well almost all Eastern Europe was under Orda (Mongolian empire) for 150 years .And the mix of Mongolians and locals were advisable (by Mongolian politics of that time).
I am “Russian” Mongolian and Japanese mix. My baby father is Jewish.
Well… my baby DOES NOT have any blue spots. When she was born I was looking for it everywhere :))) (I had it until age 6).
Nope….. not even a shadow.
Genetics are very interesting subject and I will not be surprised when my grandchildren will have it.
I am a Mongol man and all of my relatives had blue spots as like every Mongol has blue spot when they were infants. But Chinese and other nationalities don’t have. I always thought that only pure Mongol has blue spot, if one doesn’t have then he or she is not pure Mongol. Blue dot is our proud which proves Mongol blood. I heard that if someone marries with Chinese, Japanese or Korean their children don’t have any blue dot. That’s why we always concern about blue dot. If someone’s child doesn’t have blue dot, then it is shameful for the parents. But I learned that Eskimos, native Americans, some Koreans, and some other Asians also occasionally have blue dot. May be it is true that they have some degree of Mongol blood. You guys should read about Mongol Empire, Mogul Empire, Hun Empire. By the way, Hun means in modern and also ancient Mongolian language: Human. Also “Human” and “Hun” two words both spelled similarly.
Mongol blue dot only appears in tail bone area and it has only blue color. Other dots are not Mongol dot.
I’m Korean and my husband is Danish. Of course I had the Mongolian spot when born but it is completely gone now in my adulthood. Our child was also born with it even though it seems to have faded a bit now at 9 months. Most of my friends’ kids with this mix have the spot, only one doesn’t.
Does it pass down from the mother or father’s side!
Wow! Ok sought out to see what others thought about mongolian spots and I’m sorry y’all but…wow! As you all can see there is a genetic simularity between the races. The spots are commonly found in African and Asian descents. Sorry some might not like it but gosh you guys there is a motherland. I, too, am enrolled in a federally recognized tribe, Choctaw, and even I know that we didn’t spring out of the ground. Its a matter of science, check out the chinese scientist on youtube and see where his findings of chinese people go…some of you will be astounded! Those continents are right there close… you don’t think that they might have the same traits? When are we going to stop thinking we are all seperate and superior? Why are people afraid to say they are from Africa, but adopt poor african kids? These are called Mongolian spots, just because your baby has some won’t make him or her any smarter in math! Haha! My baby girl has them too and she is choctaw and white. My background goes back to cuba, african american, white, chinese, american indian. I can name each grand parent of each race…. so you think my daughter only got her spots from my chinese grandmother, I beg to differ.
Also, I agree with a lot of you but some comments were like whoa!
I’m British, I’m white and I have no foreign relatives in my family history, I checked. I had a mongolian blue spot which is very rare for people like me.
American Indians predate mongolians. They may have shared an common ancestor but then so do all modern-day humans. The blue spot occurs with some frequency among some African populations. I doubt Africans descend from mongolians.
What an amazing thread! I’ve just read everything and have found all of it very interesting indeed.
I was also born with the blue spot which faded after a few years. My son was also born with a little irregular shaped blue fried egg at his tail bone and the same on his arm which also faded after a couple of years.
My mother is Caucasian Australian and my father Australian Aboriginal, my sons father was Scottish and white.
My friends who are mixed race [west indian and caucasian] were also born with the blue spots.
I’ve yet to hear of any other [Australian] Aboriginals who also had the blue spot. However, my grandmother was dark skinned and was often mocked by my granddad who called her Queen of the Arrernte tribe.
I would love to know more about her heritage but I doubt I will be able to trace anything now.
If anyone has any opinions on how the blue spot could have been carried over to Australia, I really like to hear them!
I would also love to be able to trace my ancestry through my blood, but i presume these types of tests are extremely expensive.
my daughter had a a blue spot all down her lower back like a large belt , she is 14 now and still have it , the color is fading with time , but it still there ! i don;t know from where she got it , or what is the meaning and i think she had it from my mother side , cause my cousin , her daughter had it but at her ankle , it faded now , she is 8 . we are middle eastern ,and i think if it really was “mongolian” , so we may have some mongolian -turkish blood in my family , cause Turkish governed my country for centuries , not mongolians !
I am one of 8 African American Children and all of my brothers and sisters as well as many of my 54 nieces and nephews. I remember vividly my mother who is an RN telling my sister that the blue bruised looking area that covered her son’s rear and back were Mongolian spots. My mother is the product of a Mulatto (Indian) and a Black man that came from the Dominican Republic. Since we as a race never stays still, geographically–we think we know who we are by whats written on paper…but really looks are decieving… Who do you think you are? Are you really?
Leave your response!
Kyoto Event Calendar
Links